Israel x K-Pop? This Producer Did That

For the first time in a special interview, we spoke with Asaf Rodeh, an Israeli music producer based in the United States who has been working in the music industry for over a decade.

In recent years, Rodeh has worked with many K-pop artists, including big and well-known names like BTS and TXT.

What does the industry look like through Rodeh’s eyes? What’s the difference between the Western music industry and K-pop? What does he do in his unique role as a music producer, and what feelings does he have after October 7th, as a musician working in the international industry?

Breaking Borders: The Israeli Producer Making K-Pop History

“I’m a live music producer, and what I do is help artists take the album version to the stage,” Rodeh said in the interview. “Whether it’s bringing in and hiring musicians, or musically arranging the songs, anything related to that.”

Credit: BIGHIT MUSIC

“I kind of stumbled into this work by chance,” Asaf recalled. “I was asked to do J-Hope’s show at Lollapalooza two years ago, the first solo performance of his at a U.S. festival. I first worked with BTS when they appeared at the Grammy Awards ceremony with Lil Nas X a few years ago, when I was working with him. I did the arrangement, met them, and worked with them, but I wasn’t deeply involved in their part, so my familiarity with K-pop wasn’t very deep.”

“When I arrived in Chicago and we worked on J-Hope’s show, I didn’t realize how huge it was.

I saw signs all over the city saying ‘J-Hope we love you,’ and then I understood it was a big deal.

I think the tickets sold because of him at the festival were more than what the festival has ever sold in its history. Maybe I’m wrong, but it was around that scale. From there, things just rolled from one thing to another, so in short, that’s my story of how I got into K-pop.”

Credit: BIGHIT MUSIC

How is working with K-pop artists different from working with Western artists?

"A lot of it is tied to Korean culture. They’re very respectful, which is something I really appreciate. The work is very organized -there aren’t many surprises, and everything is structured and planned out in a way I truly enjoy, unlike how things often work in America. In K-pop, the singers show up and take everything more seriously.

When I arrive at rehearsals with the artists, they’ve already rehearsed many times before, and they expect everything on my end to be perfectly in place, down to the smallest detail. So I think that’s a major difference."

"There isn’t really that ‘you’re a rockstar so you do whatever you want’ attitude.

Their commitment to perfection, and to the fans, the music, and the art is incredible, and that was something I wasn’t familiar with at first."

"For example, with J-Hope, I didn’t know who he was when we started working together.

I wasn’t familiar with the music. But when I met him and we worked on that show, I saw that it wasn’t superficial. It’s not just a boy band that dances, it’s much deeper.

You can tell by the way they talk about things and how important it is to them to give the fans what they deserve and expect, and not to disappoint themselves.

That really left an impression on me."

"There’s a special connection in the K-pop industry with the fans. The fans are extremely devoted to the artists, and the way the artists treat their fans is also very different from Western culture. They have ‘fan meetings’ and everything is centered around making the fan feel special, like the band is there for them.

K-pop performances have so many layers, there’s the visuals, the choreography, the concept."

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How do you feel the multi-dimensionality of the performances affects your role as a music director?

“My job is, first and foremost, to work in parallel with the show’s director or the choreographer, and with all the departments. Even if we’re not actively meeting, nothing gets missed.

There’s a clear vision that everyone follows, and it extends to every detail in the music.

When I did the BTS show in Busan, we worked on the music separately with the band, and when we arrived in Korea with American musicians, I saw the full show with the lighting and fireworks, and I was in shock.”

“It’s funny, because I grew up in the rock ’n’ roll world. This isn’t the kind of music I thought would move me or blow my mind. But in the final result, there’s such a strong and clear vision, and all the departments work together, and everyone is doing their absolute best and striving for excellence on every project. I haven’t had the chance to work on full albums with K-pop artists yet, but for example, both J-Hope and Jin released remixes I did, those did get released eventually, but I haven’t worked with them in the studio in that way beyond that.”

In recent years, K-pop has had a huge breakthrough into the global public consciousness. What do you think sets the genre apart musically?

“I can’t really point to just one thing, but I think the success isn’t tied to a single reason.

There are a lot of musical elements in the genre.” “In one performance, so many different things can happen, so many colors and different styles that aren’t limited to just one thing. That’s the first point. The second is the visual element. They dance, everything is done at such a high level, and I think there’s something in their message that’s always positive, even when you watch interviews and hear how they speak.”

“When the BTS movie came out after the Busan concert, I saw J-Hope after the show, they asked him what he thought, and he said things that were deeper than I expected. He said that after performances, he hopes he did enough for the fans. That’s also something much deeper than people unfamiliar with the scene might expect.”

“That’s part of it too, the positive message. It’s fun. I also think social media and the internet contributed to their success. It’s not like the younger generation only listens to the radio anymore; they have a way to find this themselves. I think the fact that the world has become more universal played a part in that.”

Credit: BIGHIT MUSIC

When asked whether K-pop is influencing the global industry, he replies that he believes that’s the direction things are going.

“Even if you’re not a fan, or you don’t know what it is, or it’s not something you’re personally into, the scale of it is enormous.

I can’t say exactly how, beyond some musical elements here and there.

But in terms of live shows, I do see things, like the use of elaborate lighting displays and similar elements that are starting to show up in other places. I can’t say in depth what else is being adopted, but I think it might take a few more years.”

Has working in the K-pop industry affected your creative style or the way you now look at live performances? Has it inspired you in any way?

“Definitely. My work is music at its core, but it’s also a lot about human relationships. On one hand, there’s the musical side and the things I’ve worked on… I think they like the work I do. But personally, it holds much deeper meaning.”

“You can work on the biggest show in the world, and the next day, no one calls or really appreciates you that much, because that’s just how the industry is. But in K-pop, it’s different. If you do your best and deliver really great work, it’s appreciated and you can feel it.

Beyond that, musically, these shows are just incredible.”

“I worked on SUGA’s tour, and when I went to see the show, it was wild.

Just the fact that you can have a song that’s super heavy, with loud guitars and flames on stage, and then suddenly he sits at the piano and sings a very sweet ballad, that’s something really unique. That usually doesn’t happen, even in terms of how artist images are built.”

“You don’t usually have a performer who plays heavy, intense music for a whole show, and then suddenly dances or plays a gentle piano song. It just doesn’t happen.

K-pop brings all of that together. And beyond that, they’re not afraid to go all out.

They take a lot of the arrangements we create and push them to the limit.

Sometimes when I’m working, I think I may have gone too far, but I believe they’re open to it. They’re open to that kind of creativity, and they’re willing to go big, especially since they know the shows are usually massive.”

In K-pop, many songs combine more than one musical style .Is that challenging?

“I actually love it. I happen to have a background that includes working on many different types of music, and part of my job often involves stepping into situations that have nothing to do with anything I’ve done before,which is funny, because I still work with a lot of different artists.

So for example, if I show up to a country music show and mention that I worked on a BTS performance, there are always people who recognize that it’s a big deal, and others who raise an eyebrow like, ‘What does he know and what’s he doing here?’”

“In the show we did in Busan, there was a mix of so many different styles, and that’s musically challenging too. I think doing a good job across multiple genres, and keeping it authentic, is something that’s both difficult and exciting. It definitely makes things more interesting and way more emotional.”

“It’s funny because the musicians I usually work with, the ones I bring in, are mostly people I’ve been working with for a long time. A lot of them are over 30, and they didn’t grow up with K-pop. They don’t really know what it is. But then we start working on the music, and suddenly they realize it’s way broader than what you deal with in an average show, it’s a lot more challenging, and a lot more fun.”

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A person who doesn’t come from the world of K-pop often ends up genuinely surprised, it’s not what they expected at all, and suddenly they find themselves loving the genre because its musical process is interesting and different.

“I took my wife to SUGA’s concert, and I had no idea how big it would be. He performed several nights at The Forum in Los Angeles, which holds about 20,000 people, and it was completely sold out.We were sitting there, and it was incredible because it wasn’t even a Korean audience. I started realizing this back when I was in Korea and ran into some Israelis who found me on Instagram, and I was like, ‘Wait, how do you even know about this?’I had no idea how popular K-pop is in Israel.”

“I still get a lot of messages from people saying, ‘Hey, we heard your name during J-Hope’s concert, he introduced you, what an honor!’ That’s never happened to me with anything else I’ve done, and I’ve worked with big artists for over 15 years. It’s a very unique experience. Funny enough, I met someone at J-Hope’s concert who’s a tour manager, and she used to work with bands like Guns N’ Roses, and she’s a K-pop fan who’s planning to fly to Korea just to see the show.”

“I think there’s something really special about it.”

On the issue of language barriers, Rohde explains:“I can’t exactly explain it. I think when something is good, it’s just good. Maybe more veteran fans than I am can tell you why it’s not a barrier.I think it just works because the quality is there, it crosses borders, and it speaks to a wide audience.”

Does this unique relationship between K-pop fans and artists influence the direction of the musical work?

“We did Jin’s performance on The Tonight Show, or even Jennie’s performance on Jimmy Kimmel. In these kinds of TV performances, there are usually around 200 people in the audience, and there might be guests like Richard Gere or other famous actors. And then the host says, ‘Later on, Jin will take the stage,’ and everyone starts screaming. You realize all those people came just for him. It’s the most supportive audience. I also sometimes see all the drama around every little thing on Twitter.”

“These are things I’m not involved in and have no part in, so I don’t really know how much they truly affect things.

But I think the artists are genuinely grateful to their fans. You can see it in the way they talk, and how much importance they give to the audience when they say ‘I love my fans’, it’s not just for show.

We did a performance with Jungkook in New York on a morning show, and fans were standing outside in the rain.

People had waited there all night, slept in Central Park, just to see the performance.

Even online, any post related to K-pop will immediately draw K-pop fans asking, ‘What about this person? What about that one?’”

Jung Kook on Good Morning America on July 14, 2023. Credit:ABC/PAULA LOBO

Do you see yourself settling into the K-pop industry and working with more groups you haven’t worked with yet?

“First of all, I really, really enjoy the work, and beyond that, I’ve built amazing connections with people in the industry.I’m genuinely happy to be part of it. Even beyond the professional side, it’s a very respectful job, and I’m proud to be part of it. There’s also something deeper here, and for me, that matters just as much.”

“I moved to America 17 years ago, and there are these situations where people here look at someone whose English isn’t as strong and raise an eyebrow. So part of my role, at least the way I see it, as someone who already feels like a local, is to make sure everything runs smoothly and that no one is condescending. Because it happens. Even when I work with artists like Mergui , it’s the same thing.Sometimes you’ll get a grumpy sound guy giving someone attitude, and I have to tell them, ‘I don’t think you realize he’s better than anyone performing at your venue.’

Part of my job is helping them understand the scale of the success and the level of talent.”

“People who don’t know how huge K-pop is around the world or how massive these artists are just don’t get the phenomenon. For example, when we show up at TV shows and the production crew is a bit older, or local sound engineers, they’re just not aware.

With all due respect to your TV show, these are artists doing massive stadium tours for years.”

“So yes, I’m already at a point where I’ve worked with a large number of artists, and in many different musical directions within the industry.”

“I’m happy, and honestly, I want to be the person people call when they need something for

K-pop,” says Asaf about his future in the industry.

“Just the fact that I now see these shows live, and I’ve done a relatively large number of performances so I can look back and say, ‘Okay, this is the sound that the shows are getting,’ and see how fans respond to it... I wish I could take credit for their success, but I think I just want to be involved in it, and be able to look back and say, ‘Yeah, I was part of that.’ Beyond that, I think I’d be happy at some point to work with K-pop artists in the studio as well, and be more involved in the album production side of things, but I believe that will happen eventually.”

“We’d always love to have Israeli representation.”

“Yes, that’s part of it too.”

What advice would you give a producer who wants to break into the K-pop industry?

“I think in general, first of all, behind the musical style are its roots, the culture that the genre comes from. It’s important to respect that, to do your homework, and understand what it’s really about, not just musically, but culturally and in terms of the people. It’s important to be sensitive to that.I think those things really helped me along the way.”

“It’s important for me to approach my work respectfully. By the way, for us as Israelis, some of those things can be more challenging, like being punctual, or certain things that in our culture aren’t considered critical, so it’s good to be aware of that ahead of time. Good communication is essential, and knowing your place within the hierarchy of things, knowing when it’s time to speak, and when it’s time to step back. I think we have something in Israel, there’s something in that connection that really works.”

“That also explains why there are so many fans in Israel. I think Israel has a lot of musical talent, and there’s more room for it here too, because we’re a bit more daring.

Also because it’s not exactly mainstream American pop, it’s something with a bit more edge.”

Who else would you like to work with?

“I love BLACKPINK. I want to work with everyone. You dream about something, and reality leads you in a certain direction, and I think I’m embracing that.”

Credit: SM Entertainment

“When I was 16, I played in metal bands in Israel. If the 15- or 16-year-old version of me saw what I’m doing now, he’d be disappointed, not just because of the

K-pop, but because part of my job is creating music for dance break segments in the middle of shows. So my 16-year-old self would probably cry.

But on the other hand, I really connect with the music and the arrangements that came out of it.”

“I went with musicians I worked with in Korea, who didn’t grow up in the world of

K-pop, to see the BTS concert film. The theater was nearly empty since it was a

late-night screening, and maybe some of the people who were there looked at us like, ‘Who are these random guys coming to watch this concert?’ But honestly, beyond the personal experience, the drummer, who I’ve played with many times, turned to me and said, ‘I can’t believe we managed to include that part,’ because suddenly, the music shifted into more of a rock vibe in certain places.”

“They have a lot of respect for the band and the musicians, and it’s important to them to showcase the players. That’s something we work on during rehearsals, it really matters to them. When I was at SUGA’s concert, it was important to him to meet me in person.

He gave me a signed album and thanked me after the show.Sometimes I work, and no one acknowledges it, but this was something special.”

Credit: JYPE

We'd recommend you aim to work with Stray Kids, they’re really on the rise.

“I’m working on it. I listen to everything, musically speaking too. The funniest thing is when suddenly some aunt or someone says, ‘Wait, you know J-Hope?’, and she’s like 60 years old.”

“I love the diversity of the fans. I truly couldn’t be more thrilled with where I’m at, in every sense. I’ve worked with a lot of people, but in Israel, no one ever got as excited or proud of me as they have over my work in K-pop. It means a lot to so many people, especially these days, so yes, I’m really happy about it.”

It’s great to hear that you genuinely enjoy working in K-pop, because there will always be people who raise an eyebrow and ask, ‘Why are you listening to music in Korean?’ And it’s really nice to hear that someone who didn’t grow up with K-pop can still find themselves connecting to it.

“At J-Hope’s concert, I found myself playing onstage with him at Lollapalooza, and it was an experience. Seeing the energy there, that’s something that always leaves me stunned.

When you see how BTS walk on stage so cool and composed, it’s not accidental, it’s something they’ve worked on. It’s more than just talent. And I watch the concert clips and tell myself, ‘Wow, they’re just crushing it.’”

Credit: Getty

The process of creating idol groups in the K-pop industry is a wild and completely different journey. From the training camps, to the selection and filtering of members, it’s an industry built in a totally different way from what the West is used to. It’s heartening to see them finally getting recognition for their hard work.

“I’ve had many instances where I’ve worked with artists who are either really big or trending on TikTok, and the work ethic and how they show up to the first rehearsal, compared to anyone I’ve worked with in K-pop, is just not comparable. There’s something about understanding the weight of it all. Maybe it’s because they’ve gone through that intense training, but even in rehearsals, where you could just do it once and be done with it, their pursuit of perfection is something I love to see. It pushes everyone around them to operate at that level. I think that’s part of what makes it so successful.”

One final and inevitable question: what’s it like being Israeli in the international industry after October 7?

“It’s not easy in many ways. It’s not easy because I’m not in Israel, and it’s hard being far from family and friends. People back home don’t always see how things look from the outside, but the opinions about Israel right now are awful. You see it in the streets, and I’ve met people I work with who are openly against Israel. Without getting too deep into the politics, at the end of the day, we’re all human beings. And I always try to be open to conversation.”

“The fear is huge, because people think we’re monsters. I try to explain the reality and show people that it’s not all black and white. Even if they saw some TikTok video and think they now understand everything, real life is more complex, and there are many sides. In the end, I try to focus on the human experience.There isn’t a person who can’t relate to the feeling of worrying for your loved ones. And you can’t blame someone for being born in a certain place.”

“A lot of people have opinions, but they’re not willing to hear the other side. In my work, I encounter many different worlds and meet people with all kinds of views, and part of my job is to stay open-minded and accepting of what’s different. In K-pop, no one ever talked to me about any of it. People often ask me what they think about the situation, and beyond the fact that I don’t know. I don’t think anyone would tell me. No one I’m connected with has ever brought up the topic.”

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“They know I’m Israeli, it’s part of who I am, and it always will be. If that means a door closes in my career and I have to do something else, I’ll do it with my head held high. At the end of the day, I’m Israeli.

In K-pop, I don’t think it matters. So far, no one has raised an eyebrow because of it. When there were some vocal anti-Israel sentiments, I was worried it might hurt me. But first of all, there’s Scooter Braun, who really loves Israel, and that helps us.”

“There was a moment on Twitter when people wanted to boycott Scooter Braun, and suddenly my name came up too, because of things I had shared on Instagram, and I thought to myself, ‘Well, it was nice while it lasted.’ And that all happened around the time BTS were enlisting, so nothing was really clear back then.”

“It’s not an easy time to be Israeli in the world, but there’s a responsibility on Israelis and Jews here, and now more than ever, that matters. In the end, the fact that I can make people back home happy, and that K-pop fans reach out to me excited that there’s an Israeli working with them, that makes it all worth it.”

Special thanks to Asaf Rodeh for the thoughtful interview!